I am a fully paid up member and will use my vote to hopefully end the trust in exchange for progress and ambition. 'What is wrong with the Trust selling the majority of its shares but retain a small amount so that the fans - the true lifeblood of the club - have a 'stake'? The club can then progress, if indeed this is what happens under Munto's control, whilst the Trust can act as a critical friend overseeing developments and asking questions where appropriate.'

I think you will find that is simply called being a fan. Fans are criticial friends overseeing developments and fans always question clubs and the way they are run. You don't need shares to do that.

David just a last simple question for you. If your ballot pape came tomorrow in the post are you going to vote yes or no ? Basically are you for huge investment or are you for the blue square premier league ?

quote:

Originally posted by Roweyp:
David just a last simple question for you. If your ballot pape came tomorrow in the post are you going to vote yes or no ? Basically are you for huge investment or are you for the blue square premier league ?

This is the major difference between the 2 arguments on here, it's not about football, it's about the long term security of the football club.

Roweyp,

Let me put it this way. I would need to know a lot more about the proposed takeover, the investors and crucially, why the Trust Board are recommending that they simply give away their shareholding to be able to vote yes.

Also I don't appreciate your simplistic reduction of what is a comples issue.

Davud if your ballot paper came today what would you vote ?

It hasn't so I don't need to think about it.

Why are you so interested in how I am going to vote? There are 1,000+ adult members, it isn't going to hang on how I decide.

Are you still a paid-up member of the Trust?

Because the club needs your support and everyone else's so hopefully we can get out of the mess certain people have got us into over the past couple of years.

David at what point did the Trust become more important than Notts County Football Club? Since when did preserving the Trust rank higher than long term stability for the football club? Without a football club the Trust doesn't exist.

Why would a big player such as Trembling wish to work alongside a Trust that cannot even work in harmony amongst its leadership?

Munto have talked about building bridges with the supporters and forging links with the local community. Whilst there may be no supporter represented on the board, I have the feeling that if the deal goes through, Notts County supporters will never have a better opportunity to feel part of the club. We have been waiting a long time for a CE that commands respect from everyone and has the power to drive the club forward.

quote:

Originally posted by Swifty:
David at what point did the Trust become more important than Notts County Football Club? Since when did preserving the Trust rank higher than long term stability for the football club?

It isn't but the Trust is an integral part of the football club whether you like it or not.

I still don't understand why the two have to be isolated. Can we not have a sustainable and successful football club with some form of supporter representation? I am not talking here about ownership or a majority shareholding, but I personally would like to see some form of supporter involvement preserved in this supposed 'brave new world'.

I must add that I am really comforted now that Swifty has a feeling that supporters will feel more part of the club than in the previous 147 years. If the investors are keen on forging links with the community and its supporters what better way than ensuring that they have a voice in the boardroom?

Finally, a CE that can help run the club in a professional manner is long overdue and would be very welcome.

David Hindley

but us normal fans are really sick & tired of the trust we dont want the trust to be any part of the new ownership.

I'm not against the Trust David, I feel that the Trust has done a great job in making the club stable again and prime for a new investor/owner. The job is completed.

I'm not saying the two have to be isolated, however, that is simply your favoured structure. In reality anyone investing heavily in to a business will want complete control. Maybe Munto feel they will be able to drive the club forward more effectively without supporter representation. It is their money, their call. There is talk of an advisory panel, what that will entail only Munto know.

I think fans will certainly feel more part of the club than in the previous decade. Conflicts between the Trust leadership and conflicts between the Trust and Supporters Club have isolated many supporters and divided the football club. There cannot be a better time to forget the politics and get behind the team. The thought of a good crowd at Meadow Lane, watching better players and winning football matches is the kind of optimism I haven't had for a long time.

quote:

Originally posted by clifton-pie:
but us normal fans are really sick & tired of the trust we dont want the trust to be any part of the new ownership.

So tell me why you are currently a member of Trust if you don't believe in it?

How many times does it need explaning to you David ? If someone wants to put £5million into a club to make it great surely that entitles them to do it their way. Why on earth would they want someone who is contributing fuck all to have a say ? If I bought a new clio I wouldn't expect some twat from Renault to sit next to me and keep telling me how to drive it.

I understand alright Roweyp, I just don't agree with the argument.

When did Munto state they were putting £5 million into the club?

If Munto were to pay the other shareholders and fulfil the other loans in the club why should the Trust be treated any differently?

Whilst I don't hold the current Trust Board in high regard I think you are a bit harsh to suggest they are contributing nothing.

You said above you didn't understand !! Make you mind up ! If being part of the set up us longer viable to Munto and their takeover please explain what else you are complaining about now ? You want the trust to receive money from Munto for their shares ? WOuld you not prefer the money going to The club to sign better players ? What would the trust do with that money ?

With respect Roweyp I think it is you that is struggling to understand.

Your car buying analogy doesn't work. Notts County FC isn't a product. It is a sporting and community institution, with a rich history.

This is why I am arguing that supporters should have some form of representation. We are the lifeblood of the club - we have a strong emotional attachment. We aren't simply customers. How many consumers would want their ashes spread down the aisles of Sainsburys or Tescos? Not only is it morally right that fans have a say, if the Trust Board retains some shares it is also a legal right.

Your scenario seems to be leave running football clubs to the money men as they are the only people that can bring success. Meanwhile supporters should be passive, turn up on matchday, buy merchandise, support the club, and don't complain or question. This is why our views are polarised and we are never, ever going to agree.

Finally, to answer your question if the takeover is to go ahead I would like to propose that the Trust shares are dealt with in exactly the same way as the other shareholders and the other individuals that have loans in Blenheim 1862. You didn't answer my question before - why should the Trust be treated any differently? The money raised could be loaned straight back (non interest) to Munto in return for a seat on the newly constituted Club Board. Munto will still be the majority shareholder and the Trust representation may only be symbolic but it would be better than simply giving it all away. Alternatively, the Trust members should be given some options as to how to utilise the funds e.g. used to meet one of the Society's aims such as forging closer links between NCFC and the community. I can't say giving the money to Ian McParland to use in the transfer market fills me with any great confidence.

So you want Munto to give the trust some money for their shares so that the trust can loan it straight back to them ? Insanity of the highest order. All I can say is thank god you are not in charge of business at Notts !! I will make it simple again for you if Munto have to give £1million for shares the guess what thats £1 million less for Notts County. Surely the club is more important than the trust ? What is best for Notts County should come first and then your little club for mates will have to take a back seat for that to happen. If Munto take us to League One next season will you be celebrating with the rest of us or whinging with your mates that we have no fan representation ??

quote:

Originally posted by Roweyp:
What is best for Notts County should come first and then your little club for mates will have to take a back seat for that to happen. If Munto take us to League One next season will you be celebrating with the rest of us or whinging with your mates that we have no fan representation ??

Roweyp,

The Trust is, and always has been far more than a "little club for mates", and it has always been about far more than questions of ownership and control - clearly, however, you have your own views on that, and won't be pursuaded on the importance of community involvment, good governance, transparency, and the other areas the Trust, under various Boards have worked on, and acheived varying levels of success in.

With regards to your last question to Dave, why shouldn't he be able to do both? Unless you're suggesting that you should only be able to support Notts, and celebrate their hoped for success, if you agree 100% with "the party line", and never dare to have a differing opinion? Given the amount of times you disagreed with a Trust run club, I thought you'd appreciate as well as anybody that people are allowed to have different opinions.

Gsreth